Talk:Cardassian/archive
Cardassian female The image "Cardassian-female.jpg" should be deleted, but I don't know how to... The reason being simple: I'm not sure is this is really a Cardassian... :Er, yes it is a Cardassian female - it's Seska. There are probably better choices of Cardassian females, though, as Seska was still in the process of restoring her Cardassian features. She was surgically altered to appear Bajoran prior to this. Alex Peckover 12:20, Jun 9, 2004 (CEST) ::Hmm, I see. Well, I now added another image to the Cardassians page. Ottens 12:22, 9 Jun 2004 (CEST) :::Keep that one, i'll implement it at the Seska article... --BlueMars 12:57, Jun 9, 2004 (CEST) ::I already did. ;-) Ottens 13:05, 9 Jun 2004 (CEST) ::::I suggest we move back to Garak as example of Cardassian male, as the picture of Tain isn't too well lit. -- Redge | ''Talk'' 13:23, 26 Aug 2004 (CEST) References I am sure there are many more references to the Cardassians in TNG, DS9 and VOY. I'm okay with the TNG and DS9 Cardassian episodes but have rarely seen Voyager. I'm sure anyone with a good knowledge of that series can contribute-Rebelstrike2005 14:53, 7 Feb 2005 (CET) : Wouldn't it be easier to list all of the DS9 episodes that Cardassians were NOT referred to in? In all seriousness, I don't think it is at all necessary to do it the way it is, since the entire premise of DS9 was based on or heavily supported by the Cardassians. Besides it makes for one incredibly long list! I think it would be easier to mention, simply --DS9 series-- and then list the individual episodes of merit as specific sources for whatever is mentioned in the article. --Gvsualan 23:51, 7 Feb 2005 (CET) PNA I've added this because the episode references need to be moved into the article with the associated text references, and just from the looks of it, in terms of how short the article is overall -- compared to the number of references listed, I would guess that there is a LOT more that could be added to this article. --Alan del Beccio 18:14, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) :Is "Observer Effect" the only episode that needs to be removed to make the last section strictly 'appearances'? Valley Forge 17:23, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::I think it is. I don't know about the last Voyager listing (everything else post-Seska says Hologram), but all the other episodes have Cardassians in them... To Alan: I think it might be easier, rather than looking for where every bit of information came from, to just write the article and list the sources used. I know, we'll have to put inline citations to conform with MA standards, but I think it looks cleaner without them. --Vedek Dukat Talk | Duty Roster 02:19, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC) Having a "list of references" is frankly a waste of space. Inline citation is the only way anyone can and would know where the information is coming from, rather than guessing from the list at the bottom of the page. I am readding the pna-cite to the uncited sections on that account. --Alan del Beccio 02:38, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC) Blue teardrop: endemic to Cardassian females? I have noticed that the inverted teardrop-shaped recession on the foreheads of Cardiassians is always blue in females and flesh-colored in males. Is this an accurate observation? If so, it should probably be mentioned in this article. However, during the scene in in which Garak is attacked in his shop by Klingons, Garak inexplicably has a blue teardrop, rather than the usual flesh-colored one. Is my observation regarding Cardassian gender dichotomy erroneous, and is this teardrop somehow indicative of mood instead? Any comments would be appreciated. —Shawn81 07:18, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC) : The reason Garak has it (I haven't seen the ep) might be a bruise or something, but I do remember one of the make-up guys saying in the special features that they had a problem with Cardassians because there was virtually no way to tell the males and females apart. That's why the spoon is blue in females. --Schrei 07:22, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC) :: Interesting theory, however his spoon was blue before he was attacked, and in the next scene he is lying in sickbay and his spoon has returned to its usual color. :: I think it was season 2 dvd special features. --Alan del Beccio 07:40, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC) I have added a note about the blue spoon for Cardassian females to this article, and have also noted the nitpick on the episode page. —Shawn81 08:22, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC) :::uh... dont Human female put makeup on thier faces too? I dont see what the big deal is. - 09:11, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC) * I think it's make-up, like, wasn't the teardrop of the engineer who was hitting on O'Brien a different colour when she /really/ propositioned him? In other news, Garak experiments with cross dressing! He was kinda growing his hair out at that point anyways. Mr.Spock was wearing blue eyeshadow to match his uniform in the original Star Trek, since this is the 23rd century, absolutely no big. - T'Sura Feb 21, 2007. * I would like to point out that in the Voyager episodes and , Seska's teardrop is blue and flesh-colored at varying points. For instance, when she boards Voyager it is clearly blue, but when she is disabling the EMH, it is much more flesh-colored (upon close examination it appears to be slightly blue, almost as if stained from previous applications of makeup). - AarrowOM 23:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC) ** Come to think of it, the slight blue coloration may be endemic to female Cardassian physiology and the deeper blue color as a result of makeup, similar to the color of Human lips and lipstick. - AarrowOM 23:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC) List of appearances Hmm... It just says Deep Space Nine, but I don't think every episode actually had a Cardassian in it. At the same time, it might be such that listing the episodes they're not in would be just as long as listing the ones they are in. Would a separate page or some other method of consolidation be appropriate? --Vedek Dukat Talk | Duty Roster 09:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC) *Yeah, a separate page is the correct answer. It has already been done for Klingon appearances. Jaf 12:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)Jaf **I just created that page. --Jörg 13:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC) Removed info The following info was removed by an archivist for unspecified reasons: :As time progressed, Cardassian technology must have advanced rapidly. In much of DS9, Cardassians are put on a more equal footing with the Federation. This suggests a rapid advance of Cardassian technology, most likely acquired from other races. In , a Cardassian officer attempted to steal technology from the enterprise. Other possible explanations include later contact with Romulans and the Dominion. I'm assuming it was removed for being in the wrong perspective, but this was neither stated nor was the deleted info placed here for discussion. But it's here now, so no worries. --From Andoria with Love 07:24, 6 April 2006 (PDT) Removed picture Why has the picture of Dukat been removed? -- Tough Little Ship 12:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC) :I did not remove it, but it was poorly lit, and did not show what a male Cardassian looked like very well. --OuroborosCobra talk 12:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC) Architecture I recall reading somewhere (The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine?) that Cardassians like curved angles as well as things arranged groups of three. There was another reference ( ?) that stated that Dukat's office was placed higher than the other areas at ops as an example of Cardassian architecture; the higher-ups preferred to look down on their subordinates. -- StAkAr Karnak 21:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC) Culture Where was it brought up that the Cardassians are only interested in science for the sake of the military? Wouldn't that contradict their curiosity of the puzzle in "The Chase"? Could we please have more references? Also, just asking, but what was the irony in Julius Caesar? That Brutus was branded a traitor by the masses, because he betrayed Caesar, out of his loyalty to the state which is supposed to be the masses? - T'Sura Feb 21, 2006. :(science question) That line is cited as being part of of either . Also, it is not a contradiction at all. Remember why the Cardassians were looking for the solution in "The Chase"? They thought it would to an unlimited power source. If that isn't something with possible military applications, I do not know what it. :As for the Caesar thing, I would personally consider it an irony to be stabbed and killed by one of my closest friends. --OuroborosCobra talk 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC) A bit of contesting against the line about Cardassians being firmly embedded in fan's minds as the Nazis of Star Trek. To be honest I've watched most of DS9 and all of TNG and not once until I read this passage did I consider them to be representative of the Nazis. Were they a militaristic and orwellian society? Most definitely yes but Shogun-era Japan was always closer to mind than any 20th century comparison. I realize that Trek has a strange passion for 'Nazis are the bad guys' but I would contest that the referenced comment is speculation and/or personal opinion. Here is the line precisely: "The Cardassians were firmly cemented in fans' minds as 'the Nazis of the galaxy'" It is in the 'Appendices'/'Sociology' section of the page :A "strange passion"? I do appreciate that there was a disproportionate number of appearances for what would have been, in the 24th Century, a long-dead dogmatic, ideological regime. But you shouldn't be so flippant about a regime that arguably rehabilitated the word "evil", according it an almost scholarly status. But that's a digression. :The Cardassians, as portrayed, had overt parallels with the Nazis, and to a lesser extent, the Japanese military regime of WWII. No doubt there was additional allegorical commentary on how distorted and pliant humanity can become when it is placed in such doctrinal conditions, but that is inconsequential. As Star Trek tends to reflect an American perspective, it's unlikely that WWII Japan would have had an appreciable influence in the development of the episodes that engendered that abiding perception of the Cardassians. There appears to be a sufficient availability of sources to verify the passage but I'm unsure whether the format of attribution is comparable to Wikipedia. 05:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC) ::Why not start by revealing any of those sufficiently available resources. Without those, the format of attribution here is definitely comparable to Wikipedia's: that is to say, unattributed material ideally dries up and blows away before the mighty wind of the crufthosers. Similarly: "all my friends think so", or "some guy made a site on Tripod about it" do not constitute attributions. --TribbleFurSuit 05:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC) Peer Review and possible nomination Does anyone else think that the Cardassian page would make for a good Featured Article after it went through a Peer Review? I think it has more than enough information about the species and after a bit of a cleanup could easily be nominated for a Featured Article. - Thot Prad 15:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC) Peer review A while back I had submitted this for a featured article, but unfrotunatly it did not receive enough votes to get there. I believe this is a thorough article with a lot of information on the Cardassian species, and that if it was tweaked a bit, would be worthy of a featured article. Mostly I think the article needs to be formatted a little better, specifically the paragraph structures. I think there might also be some better images that could be used on this page to replace the top one of Dukat, and I think the Cardassian Union logo image should be shrunk down in size. If you have any other suggestions, make them here please. Thot Prad 12:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC) Following up/re-posting on my comments on the FA nomination for this article. It's mostly complete but the Philosophy section has a lot of content that would seem to fit better under Society and Culture, or perhaps Philosophy should be a sub-section of that? I see very little there that is revealing about Philosophy which I would consider to include Religion or Ethics and the like. Certainly bits about architecture and the paragraph following belong in Society. Also, I think there are some things missing here that can be gleaned from other episodes such as hostility between men and women often being a prelude to mating (Destiny). And given the importance of the military and intelligence services it definitely needs a section or sub-section for each even if it's brief and links off to the main articles. Logan 5 Technology In the tech section while discussing the Klingon/Cardassian war, and relative technologies, it fails to note that while the Galor Class warships aren't on par with the big capitol ships of the major powers (Galaxy, Vor'Cha, D'deridix classes) they appear to be a match for the much smaller K'Vort class ships that make up the back bone of the Klingon fleet. Any thoughts on the subject? (StarkeRealm 12:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)) :Has it ever been stated that they are on par with K'Vorts? It was stated that they were behind modern designs like the Galaxy class (in , if I am not mistaken). Getting past that, what was stated, and I think we are pushing into the realm of fan speculation, which is a dangerous ground. --OuroborosCobra talk 14:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC) Physiology There are some striking physical similarities between Cardassians and Denobulans. Apart from the "spoon" on the forehead, the two races have the same cranial ridges around their eyes, ears, and chins. Any reference to the two species being somehow related? File:Gedrin.jpg|Vaadwaur File:Dukat, 2369.jpg|Cardassian File:Yolen.jpg|Denobulan : Just what you wrote above. One could say something similar about the Vaadwaur. --Alan del Beccio 19:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC) ::i think perhaps these issues should be addressed in a section dealing with make-up over one on genetics. Physiology: "Resistance" Statement is in Error To me the following paragraph seems just plain wrong: "Compared to other species, the Cardassians have a very strong resistance to the effects of alcohol, depressants and anesthetics. One Cardassian was able to down more than two bottles of kanar without being affected, and was even injected with 30 ccs of triptacederine without consequence, despite the fact that a dose of that magnitude would be enough to put an Algorian mammoth to sleep." First and most importantly, the point of showing Garak's unsuccessful attempts to anesthetize himself in with Kanar and then an anesthetic was not that Cardassian central nervous systems (CNS) are more resistant to alcohol and anesthesia--the point was to show what extreme pain he was experiencing. The more pain one is in, the more pain reliever one can take before passing out. Cancer patients, for example, may be placed on opiates to be taken on a schedule, be given shorter-acting opiates if they start to feel pain, plus be given a quick-acting opiate (in lollipop form, believe it or not) for sharp episodes of breakthrough pain. Someone not in pain would conk out with a half-dose of the scheduled opiate--and there's no reason to believe that if he were not in excrutiating pain, Garak (and other Cardassians) wouldn't, too. Cancer patients whose pain keeps them conscious despite heavy narcotics could still die from respiratory failure if they take more than what the palliative medicine doctor prescribes; that's what Dr. Bashir was worried about. Second, the reference to an Algorian mammoth was hyperbole, not "fact." One would have to be an extreme literalist to think the intention of Dr. Bashir's statement was that 30 cc's was the standard veterinarian dose; anyone who has ever sat in a literature class should know the point of the comparison was that Garak took a "large" dose, not that Cardassians can literally withstand anesthesia doses that an Algorian mammoth can't. I would suggest that the paragraph be deleted altogether from this article. If it were to be corrected, it would clearly refer to Garak's situation in and would no longer express anything unique about Cardassians as opposed to humans and other humanoids. MultiplePOV 20:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC) :User:Thot Prad added it last July 9th. SennySix 06:07, 4 May 2008 (UTC) Top quote "I don't like Cardassians - they're mean and arrogant!" - Quark (DS9: "Behind the Lines") Doesn't this say more about Quark's feelings at a particular moment in a particular situation than it is a summation of Cardassians? After all, Quark is also madly in love with a Cardassian and friendly with others on occasion. A separate section citing other's views of Cardassians would be a more appropriate place to use this. MultiplePOV 04:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC) :I agree and removed the quote accordingly. It's not a particularly memorable quote IMO anyway. I think a small section on viewpoints of Cardassians would be a good addition. As as start, we could mention the following viewpoints: :* Bajorans, as a subject species, in particular Kira :* Miles O'Brien, as a Human who was involved in the Federation-Cardassian War - , , et al. :* Quark, as an entrepreneur in Cardassian space - the Beginning of the DW arc, as well as flashbacks in and :* The Dominion, as their "partners" - Weyoun, the Female Founder (shouldn't be too long considering the article already details D/Carassian relations in History) :How's that sound? – Cleanse 04:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC) Are Cardassians Synapsids? Cardassians are described in the article as 'reptilian', but are they in fact a Synapsidhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid species? Synapsids are also known as 'mammal-like reptiles' (extinct on Earth), and this seems to describe Cardassian physiology quite well. They are certainly different from Sauropsid species (Gorn, Xindi-Reptillians, or for that matter Lizards and Crocodilians). Now, IIRC, there is nothing in canon that directly states that they are reptiles of any kind (althought I think several people described them as 'cold-blooded' several times). They also have hair on their heads, which would be unusual for a reptillian species.– 03:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC) :I think it would be folly to overly describe them and try to place them in Earth evolution levels that have not been stated in canon. Reptiles are described living off Earth. Past that, pushing our luck. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC) ::The ridges hint at reptillian heritage. Also, the spoon design on the forehead resembles the 3rd eye on Iguanas. My Iguana has prominent ridges around his eyes. Female Pygmentation I believe the blue coloration on female Cardassians should be regarded as cosmetic. There are examples of female Cardassians without it; Asha doesn't have it, neither does Jil Orra. While Jil is a young child, and perhaps the blue coloration doesn't appear until they grow up, Asha is a young teen, and there's not even a hint of it there. Mika's baby and Tora Ziyal are hybrids, but Tora is an adult and doesn't have a hint of the coloration either; while the rest of her Cardassians features are pretty strong. Should we say something about this in the article? MaGnUs 06:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC) :It's a background note at most - the only thing that can be said in the article is along the lines of "Female cardassians have been shown to have a blue spot in their forehead spoon"... — Morder (talk) 06:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC) ::How about mentioning the fact that some of them don't have it?MaGnUs 08:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC) :::It's an oversight, like the original Trill and Bajoran makeup in particular. I'd say leave it out. -O'BrienTheCoolGuy ::::Yes, it is not significant. Perhaps they are different races of Cardassians.--31dot 09:18, December 19, 2009 (UTC) :::::I think you could draw an analogy to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindi_%28decoration%29. Since DS9 makes so many obvious references to religion throughout the work, it seems logical that this was another reference to Earth traditions. Of course, the Cardassians seem to be thoroughly atheistic, so it'd be just as well termed a cultural aspect akin to Human lip painting. 03:10, April 22, 2010 (UTC) Type II? There were a large number of new additions in the last 24 hours that I've not come across before, most of which were rewordings of prior material (a lot of which appears speculative) with none of the citations changed. One bit of new information is as follows: :The Cardassian Union is a type II Culture. Cardassians are Patrilineal, whether they are also patrilocal is unknown. Where is this information from? The article claims that it is cited from , but I don't recall any conversation about "type II", patrilineal", and patrilocal" stuff coming up... -- sulfur 13:04, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :Doesn't sound familar to me. Don't even know what those terms mean.--31dot 13:28, December 31, 2009 (UTC) ::"Type II" probably refers to the , meaning a civilization that manages to control the energy output of whole solar systems, but not yet whole galaxies. I'm not aware of any Trek reference to this. -- Cid Highwind 13:57, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :::I just noticed this remark myself and thought it sounded rather odd. Indeed, if you think about it they would not be considered a Type II civilization, since nobody in Star Trek (except perhaps the Borg) has advanced to the point where they can harness every last bit of energy that comes out of a solar system. Should this line be removed? (The patrilineal part could probably stay since Cardassian last names do seem to be passed down from the father's side, but patrilocal isn't in my dictionary...anybody know what it means? :-)) -Mdettweiler 22:22, March 1, 2010 (UTC) ::Found something at Wikipedia: . Not sure how (and if) any of that applies, so I'm just going to be bold and remove the quoted sentence from the article. Let's see some better sources before moving it back. -- Cid Highwind 22:29, March 1, 2010 (UTC) ::::I've done a bit of thinking about this - the only references I remember are the Dyson Sphere in TNG (Type II), and the location of the Borg transwarp hub, which looks like it uses either a star, artificial black hole, some kind of contained supernova, or some other such piece of Treknobabble. I'm guessing (if true) that would either be Type II or something sort of between II and III. Jswitte (talk) 19:09, November 20, 2012 (UTC) Past tense? Why are we referring to Cardassians in the past tense? They were not completely annihilated during the Dominion War. There were survivors. As far as canon goes, they are not an extinct species. Let's not jump to conclusions. 02:03, September 3, 2010 (UTC)spacebunny :It's a (slightly odd) Memory Alpha convention. Everything is written as if from the perspective of someone living long after the "present" seen in Star Trek TV and films. The explanation and rationale are here, if you're interested. —Josiah Rowe 02:39, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Lifespan Shouldn't we mention that Cardassians seem to have a longer lifespan than most races, despite it being almost thirty years, dukat didn't look any different to how he did during the ocurpation, just a thought. --General MGD 109 19:47, September 9, 2011 (UTC) :We shouldn't unless there is some hard statistic or statement to hang our hat on- Dukat's appearance could be for any number of reasons.--31dot 20:03, September 9, 2011 (UTC) Naming Should there be something mentioning the similarity between Cardassians and Bajorans with their names? Both seem to use their family name as prominent unless interacting with someone close. For example, we didn't know Garak's first name was Elim until well into ds9's second season. If the similarity isn't necessary to be noted, it should be noted for the Cardassians alone in this article. --Jaguartalon 07:54, November 27, 2011 (UTC) :I don't think that's true with Bajorans, at least any more than it is with any other species/culture. With a few Cardassians we don't know if the name used for them is their first or last name (such as Mila or Ari) and we, as well as Bashir, didn't know Garak was his last name until we were told that by Enabran Tain. So I'm not sure we should generalize based on a few examples.--31dot 09:45, November 27, 2011 (UTC) losses in Dominion War The end of the article states 1 billion Cardassians died during the last few hours of the Dominion War. The cited figure in "What You Leave Behind", on MA, and in other works refer to 800 million. This is the first time I've read of "1 billion". Is there another canon or background source for this, like an episode script or an interview? Thanks! 17:59, February 7, 2012 (UTC) Cardassian Wars I would like to point out that, while Cardassians did manage to stalemate Federation, it is implied that Federation's involvement in Cardassian Wars was half-hearted (most people in Federation didn't even really notice there was a war) while Cardassians were being driven to bankrupcy. :I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking here. 31dot 21:24, April 14, 2012 (UTC) Cardassian Bones In Way of the Warrior Bashir mentions that the Klingons broke seven of Garak's transverse ribs and fractured his clavicle. I think that something about their skeletal structure could be added. Speaking of ribs, a transverse rib is not a medical term, but an architectural term related to roof supports in vaulted roofs. For example; http://www.pitt.edu/~medart/menuglossary/transrib.htm This could give us a bit of an idea of what Cardassian ribcages were like. Opening Quote Not sure the opening quote is the best. It looks more like it should be on the 'Central Command' page than a page about the people. Lt.Lovett (talk) 16:05, September 16, 2013 (UTC) :I'm not sure I agree with you. My interpretation of Picard's quote is that it isn't a wise idea to mess with the Cardassians as they can be unpredictable as a people, which I think suits the article just fine. --| TrekFan Open a channel 19:26, March 13, 2014 (UTC)